Methadone: A Flicker Of Light In The Dark

Methadone: A Flicker Of Light In The Dark

To provide a better understanding of the very important role methadone plays in the treatment of addiction.
 
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 Your Dose and How it was Determined

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pangyalwilliams

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PostSubject: Your Dose and How it was Determined   Tue May 19, 2009 7:40 am

Hi Everyone,

My name is Pam and I am one of your Forum Moderators. I was sitting here thinking and got curious so I wanted to start a discussion thread on the subject.

I am in Ohio and where I am in Dayton, we only have 1 Methadone clinic. Luckily, if you don't have the money, you don't have to pay a dime except $5 a month for take home fee but they also have a dose cap of 100mg. I am on 95 mg after originally starting at 80mg. I only took pills...never heroin so the dose seems to be ok for me after a year and a half.

What I would like to know is how your dose was determined. Did you have to fight to get the dose you have or is your clinic the type that gives you what you ask for.

Another thing that I have noticed and it might be true for some of you is even though you are not supposed to feel it as a "buzz", I still feel my Methadone kick in and that makes me feel a little guilty sometimes because I am not supposed to derive any enjoyment from it. I don't enjoy it so much as feel a great sense of relief when it kicks in.

Let me know about your dose....you don't have to say how much it is if you don't feel comfortable but how does it make you feel and if you do feel it, do you feel guilty about feeling that way and does it make you want to get your dose raised even further. Those are the demons that I am dealing with right now and I know it is my addiction talking but let me know what you think. I could really use some insight.

Yours in Recovery and Friendship

Pam
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Sammy

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PostSubject: About my Dose   Tue May 19, 2009 10:49 am

Hi Pam
It's very nice to meet you, My Husband and I have been on methadone for 3 year's, When I first got to the Clinic they took me in right away, Even though this one nurse pointed out to the doctor that I was on benzo's, The doctor repled "Yes I know she's in" I think he already had his mind up because my husband went there first and talked to him about my situation, I have been on valium about 18 yr's, plus other Phyc Med's for depression, Seazure disorder, etc, Anyway's The first time I got my dose it felt great, Like a nice buzz, even though I was still very sick, At my Clinic when I had started they started me on 45 mg's And the nurse can up you 5 everyday at your request till your up to 70 mg's after that, if you still feel Ill, They call the doctor and the doctor will up you 5 or 10 mg's, Well I had gotten myself up to 160 mg's and I stood at that for about 6 month's I think, Then I was on my health trip, Started taking Vitamin's, And I take Seazure med's " Dilantin" which eat's up the methadone, I was taking them at night time 100 mg's 4 time's a day, So I took them at bedtime 400 mg's Some doctor's tell you to take them that way, or to slpit them threw out the day, Anyway's with out realizing, My methadone was being eatten up, Between the dilantin and the vitamin C, I felt the acute withdrawl's And it was a horrible feeling, The 1 feeling I hated the most was Feeling jiddery, " Ant;s in your pant's", My blood presure raising, So I just couldn't take it anymore and told the nurse, They did the troth, and the nurse took my blood presure, And she could see I was sick, So they raised me that day 10 mg's, Because they knew I was on Dilantin, And they knew it eat's up the methadone, anyway's I got up to 190 mg's LOL And being that high of a dose plus being on my bezo's I was nodding out, My husband would see me nodding, well I wanted to come down, So I had stop taking the Vitamins which had extra Vitamin C, which I didn't know at the time, And I split my Dilanting and taking them threw out the day, So I got down to 145 mg's Which was great I was lower than I was in the first place, I felt the same also, Only differance was I wasn't so tired, being tired everyday is no way to live, that's why I wanted to come down. Ok So my yearly Exam is due, And They took troths when you got your exam, Which was something new, At this time I was taking 1 dilantin per day, So when My troth came back The doctor was very concern for me, He said My methadone is way high, So I didn't want to get into any trouble, as far as not taking a Med, Because My doctor was thinking I was taking more methadone on the side, But that wasn't the case, So I told the nurse that I didn't take my Dilantin for 2 day's because I had my period, LOL Anyway's They said ok but we will have to give you another troth, So I started taking my Dilantin, and Extra, because I want to show him it was me not taking the Dilantine, Which is the God's honest truth, Anyway's I have my takehome's, And The nurse called me and First she asked me if I dosed yet, And I said yes because I did, Then she said If I could come in with my meds even though it was a takehome day, I said sure, And then called me back and said for me to bring in my dose for the next day in, I'm thinking to myself Oh no, there probally going to give me a lower dose, Ok so after I am there, there is 1 nurse counting my meds, Which I new they would do that, Expesally the Valium, it all came out correct, Ok so the other nurse come's in and said the Doctor doesn't want you to dose today, I was like Oh no, I really don't want to get sick, well I got threw that, the next day I was going to the Clinic as fast as I can, Because I had the acute symton's dry mouth felt like pukeing, cramp's which I had constantly, So I'm finally at the Clinic which isn't that far from me, THANK GOD, And I get Dosed 70 mg's . At this point I was just gratful I was dosed, and then was doe's 10 more,everyday till I got to 100, At 100 I was fine, But I felt I needed 5 more Mg's and So I asked the Doctor, And he said yes, And I don't feel any difference , as being on 105 mg;s or 190 mg's the Only difference is being tired, Anyway's I am gratful I'm on 105 mg's and I feel great, as Far as feeling Buzzed, I guess I do to a degree, Basketball a couslier said anyone who take's Benzo's will to a degree , Anyway's I'm sorry If I gave you took much to read, I'm Looking forward from hearing more from you Pam. Have a GR8 Day. Sincrely Sam.
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PostSubject: About my dose.   Tue May 19, 2009 11:07 am

Hi Sam,

Thanks for the reply. Please don't apologize for writing so much. I ALWAYS write too much....laugh. I enjoyed reading what you had to say because at 95 mg. I still feel it "kick in" and I live for that feeling every day which makes me still feel like a drug seeking addict looking for a high but at the same time, I think it is more being grateful and feeling relief to not be going through the withdrawals. Like you, I think that is the absolute worst feeling in the world and every day I have my methadone, I am grateful. I have made mistakes with my take homes before especially with just having my appendix burst and going through the surgery. None of the drugs they were giving me for pain worked so when I got my take homes, it was very easy for me to take a small sip off the top of each one to give me the pain killer affects of methadone which I greatly needed at the time. Of course, I still felt guilty and I have to pay for it a little bit for the following 5 days but not too bad. 10 or 20 mg lower on my dose doesn't make that much of a difference to be honest.

I have heard that if we feel it than we are on too high of a dose but I am not planning on asking for a dose reduction any time soon. I am not ready to let that feeling go yet. Call it a crutch if you will. I realize it is still addict behavior and I have to deal with that but I guess the thing that scares me is that if I knew I could get my dose easily raised I would do it in a heartbeat but my clinic is pretty tough. As I said, they don't like putting anyone on anything over 100mg.

I see that you are a moderator here also. I am very glad to meet you and it is nice to finally talk to you. I am still learning how to do things here but am having fun doing it. Do you have a problem with people at your clinic selling drugs? We do. Benzos are bought and sold there ALL the time. I don't like how easy it is and if you are having a bad day when you go in, it is so hard to resist the urge. You have them prescribed for you so you are ok. I am not. We are not allowed to have take homes if we are on benzos...even if we have a script from the doc. I guess that is the price we pay for not having to pay for our methadone. I do wish it was easier to get a dose raised but to be honest, if what I am on is holding me, I think I am probably better off without the raise. I am sure you can relate. I am so proud of you that you came down so far on your dose. You have a great strength to be able to do that. Anyway, back to what I was talking about. I think I am going to stop this message and actually post a new topic about the selling of drugs at our clinics. It seems like it would be a good topic for discussion.

I look forward to talking with you again, Sam. Again, it was very, very nice to meet you.

Yours in Recovery and Friendship

Pam


Last edited by Dee on Wed May 20, 2009 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correct Spelling)
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PostSubject: How Your Dose Is Determined   Tue May 19, 2009 9:15 pm



Hello, Pamela and Sammy:
I thought I would put my thoughts in and hopefully we can get others to start contributing. They passed a law in 2001 which took the cap off the dose but since then there has been so many deaths that have occurred many of the Opiate Treatment Programs are afraid to give increases.
There never was a serious problem in Georgia until the deaths started and now we have 41 Opiate Treatment Programs and most of them will not go over 120mg. If you transfer from one program to another, Federal Regulations state you should be able to transfer on the dose you are on and the Phase but it is not always occurring anymore. Many of the Opiate Treatment Programs will not even accept you on a high dose. I just finished dealing with the problem. I believe Sammy and I both were having similar problems at the same time but I couldn't find one at all and I had called almost all of them.
The one I had transferred to decided they didn't want me especially after the owner from the one I transferred from called and spread all of his lies. You know they rarely ever believe the addict and of course the physician thought I had lied to Him and He wanted me to leave; but thank God I have friends in high places and He told them they had to dose me until I could find one to transfer to.
I can tell you Sammy, it took a miracle because I had called all of them and I had no idea what I was going to do. I was on 280mg and there was no way I could go down to 120mg. I began to pray and pray I did because I knew only God could make a way where there was no way. Thank God, one of the patients on the forum had been trying to reach me by phone and we kept missing one another and besides it was her post about the Opiate Treatment Program I had transferred from that had made Him blow up at me the last time and made me remove "Rate Your Program" from my website. I had to post an apology to the owners of the one I was attending so I really thought she wasn't too pleased with me for removing her posts and basically saying none of what she said was true.
I knew what she had posted was true and I felt as if I had betrayed all of you but I had no choice...I needed my methadone. I finally did touch base with her and she told me she had attended there and what all she and Stephanie had gone through while they were patients at Toxicology Associates. She told me where they had transferred and how great it was there and they knew there just what was going on with Toxicology. She convinced me it was definitely worth a try and besides I knew the owner and she was a Pharmacist. I knew she was aware of my my website because she sent me her yearly updates for me to change on my website concerning her prices.
I did call and told them the dose I was on and He told me to come on in tomorrow. Yes, they did take me on my dose and there was no problem. I have even went up 10mg since then but I believe I will have to go up more than just 10mg because it has been six years since I had a dose increase. I am thrilled because I am able to take my Xanax and I see the Doctor at the clinic at his office and He prescribes them for me. I had to taper off of them at the other one and it almost destroyed me. I feel really good about all of it. It turned out much better than I ever dreamed. I was able to get a dose increase and take my Xanax and I don't have to go through all the harrassment I did at Toxicology.
But to answer how do they decide what dose you should be taking... they should listen to you and many do a Peak and Trough but they are not totally accurate. The dose should hold you for twenty-four hours and stop your withdrawal symptoms and all your cravings. If it doesn't then you should let your counselor know and she should document it and then she should have you see the Doctor and many times if you are over 120mg they want you to have a Peak and Trough and if it comes back from the laboratory showing your trough is low then many will increase your dose either 5 or 10mg. I can't say all of them will do it nor that the Peak and Trough is always correct...
We have seen many lately who will not increase your dose nor even talk to you about it. Many of us in Georgia have trouble receiving increases and it is not only happening in Georgia but in other states. Your dose should hold you twenty-four hours and there should be no withdrawal symptoms and no signs of craving.I no longer get any buzz but it is possible I did many years ago but it has been so long I don't remember. I do know many say they feel some euphoria.
If there is anyone selling drugs on the outside where I attend I haven't seen them. Many years ago when I first started someone came over to my car after I had just picked up my week's carry out and asked if they could buy a bottle from me. I was on 100mg and they offered to pay me $100.00 but I needed my medication much too bad and never would I have risked my chances of getting discharged by selling Him one of my doses.
Please read the Emergency Post about the law they are trying to pass. I want to hear what you have to say about it and pass the word around. We can't let it pass, there is too much at stake.



Deborah Shrira, CEO
http://www.MedicalAssistedTreatment.org
Phone: (770) 334-3655 Cellular (770) 527-9119
We accept calls 24 hours every day and if you can't afford to give us a call then please end us your phone number along with your name and the best time to reach you and we will call you at our expense. You never have to live with unanswered questions nor feel as if you are all alone. You are just one telephone call away from people who really do care about you. Take advantage of it and give us a call?




Last edited by Admin on Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:07 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Mispelled Words)
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PostSubject: How your Dose is Determined.   Wed May 20, 2009 8:40 am

Hi Deborah,

Thanks for the insight. I always learn something when I read your posts....lol. I have also read and printed the document about the new law they are trying to pass about the wafers and I will write my congressman about it. Our clinic does not dispense wafers at all. All they use is the liquid so it won't affect my clinic but I know what it will do to people who are used to getting them as takehomes. I have never even seen a wafer and what it looks like or how you take it so I am going to check it out and get educated.

Thanks Again

Pam
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PostSubject: My dose   Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:31 pm

My clinic will normally starts you out at 30 mg and raise you 5mg every other dayuntil 60 then you have to put in a request through you councelor which can take days to weeks. It's usually easy to get an increase unless you have a dirty ua which I have never had! I had always heard how stong methadone is so on the street I always took 10-15mg at a time so I asked if I could start there, they let me and after 8 months I am now at 30mg. It works for me and yes I feel it kick in every day but Iwouldn't really say I am buzzed I feel like I think I should see after going all night maybe those endorphines are gone some and your bodys getting them back with your dose especially if you feelbd in the evenings! It will not work right til you are 100% stable! I firmly believe that! We have no ceiling at our clinic heard of someone being on 240 but I think the average is 100-150. I was so scared of goin up to high because I have seen so many people nodded out from it when was on the street using and I know that when you have an idea about what's going to work you can mentally influence stuff like that. I am getting tired that didn't come out quite right so TTFN (ta ta for now)
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PostSubject: Re: Your Dose and How it was Determined   Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:37 am

I wish it was that easy at my clinic Sunshine. They won't go over 120mg without a peak and trough which would be fine except for thier interpretation of it does not go along with what SAMHSA and others say is an adequate P & T level.

I know this because I am fighting with them right now. I have been at 120 for over 4 yrs and I needed an increase. I had been told by other pts that our clinic wouldn't go over 120mg but I know that it is against the law to dose cap now so I thought I was ok. Plus I KNEW I was having w/d symptoms so I had no doubt my P & T would show I needed an increase so I wasn't worried. Up until this time, I had never had a serious complaint about my clinic other than the cost of treatment and that they go up on thier fees all the time.

NOT ANYMORE! Like I said, I am fighting with them now and they keep giving me the run around. They said my P&T levels show I am overmedicated and wanted to decrease me! Even though I am sitting there in withdrawls and they see this! All the info I have found and given them show that my levels show I am undermedicated, not to mention that all of the info also says you should not go by just the P&T levels but how a pt presents themselves...........PLEASE!

The owner/director told me herself that the doctor will rarely go over 120mg and then only if someone has hepatitis or severe liver problems. THAT RIGHT THERE says they have a dose cap but if I complain and tell someone what she said, who are they going to believe? Because you know she will deny saying that......

The med nurse even told me I am not the only one having this problem right now so I know they know what they are doing is wrong. The doc told me that if I feel I need to go over 120mg then maybe it's about time I started thinking about getting off methadone.........freakin hypocrite! If he doesn't believe in mmt treatment than why work at a MMT clinic?

I could go on and on about this subject so I will quit now.

Thanks for sharing your story. It would be so nice if all clinics had the same mentality.


RuthAnn
aka lilgirllost

We are not bad people trying to become good, we are sick people trying to become well.

Methadone; A Flicker Of Light In The Dark
www.medicalassistedtreatment.org
www.suboxoneassistedtreatment.org
We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
If you cannot afford to call us, send us an email and
we will call you at our expense.
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PostSubject: that sucks!   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:18 am

Man I just wrote a big long reply and when I tried to save it it disappeared, that sucks. Let me recap the best I can. I do have a pretty good clinic when it comes to letting you go as high as you need to, though I usually wait longer than I am comforable with when I am trying to go up. I once waited 33 days for an increase. I am also having trouble getting my take homes signed off on. I waited a while to put in for them because my fiancee couldn't get his and now I want mine, we used to use the time as good quality time together but now we leave at 5:30 get there at 6 to dose because he has to be at work EARLY. I usually don't go in til 4 or 5 and thats a long time between dosing and work! I end up taking a nap and I hate the way I feel when i wake up I seem so groggy! My counselor said yesterday she would put in for my 3rd one, I have sunday and i put in for sat at least 2 weeks ago still not approved. We also never know how long we will wait because they have a different # of nurses every day we may wait 30 min today and over an hour tomorrow. They never have a seprate window for take homes and at one point today all windows were shut doing 2 week and a month take homes they need a better system for that. They don't premake peoples takehomes we all get in one line and they make them up as we go. It's weird. Just keep following the rules and don't let them get to you! Obviously if you are having w/d symptoms at 120 you should NOT consider quiting that is just ridiculous, sometimes I thinkthey are not educated enough this is not like other drugs where most of the dependence is mental we have dibilatating problems when we w/d!! Keep your head up and keep fighting for what youknow is right!!
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PostSubject: Starting doses have really changed over the years!   Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:14 pm

I was on the same clinic for 18 years and recently had to switch to a different clinic. I actually tried to go without methadone for awhile but after a month or so realized that I was failing miserably at going drug-free. So, I didn't start the new place as a transfer client. I was fairly desperate by the time I got on this clinic and was relieved to finally be back on methadone. Mistakenly thinking that once I was on the program, everything would fall back into place and I'd be all set. I had to meet with the doctor prior to being initially dosed and had the shock of my life when he told me that the starting dose there is 20mg and that I would be on assessment for a week so that they could adjust my dose according to blood pressure, sweats, nausea, etc... The other thing that amazed me, was that they only go up 5mg at a time! They had a particularly difficult time assessing me since I was shaking every day from panic attacks. (I'm agoraphobic and it's very stressful having to leave the house, especially on a daily basis.) They ended up increasing my assessment period an additional week. All in all, it took over a month to get to 100mg...the dose I had been on for 18 years. Anyway, what happened to the days when you were asked if you were having cravings in order to decide your dose increases? Clinics used to always do this. I remarked that when I get high, I don't slap on a blood pressure cuff in order to decide when I've had enough. Since when do cravings have nothing to do with this equation? Also, anybody with a "real" habit will not get much benefit from 20 mg. In the past, clinics would typically start you at a minimum of 40-50mg and increase you by 10mg as you needed it. I felt completely out of the loop when they were establishing my dose. I'm wondering when our feelings became so inconsequential. Now that I have to go to a clinic on a daily basis (at least until I can start getting take-homes), I'm disturbed at how over-regulated clinics have become and how we are generally treated like square pegs being hammered into round holes. Last I checked, we are still human beings and should be given some individualized attention, and be allowed some opinion concerning our treatment and therapy. Am I being overly critical here?
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PostSubject: Re: Your Dose and How it was Determined   Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:01 am

Keemo, hang in there okay? I know things may look dark right now, but HANG ON! Night only lasts for a season, corny and clique I know but it is SO true. You went through a terrible ordeal and now you have to work through the steps to dealing with the ordeal. I think in every situation we have to go through certain "levels" or "phases" of healing or dealing with something that is traumatic for us. If we get stuck on a phase or skip a phase, we don't truely heal and then we are never able to move on.

We are here for you if you want to talk, let me know and I will give you a call or if you find it is easier to talk via email, shoot me an email.

You don't have to go through this time of healing alone! That is the whole purpose behind the website and this forum is so we can be there for each other. I am by no means perfect in any way, but I would help you in any way I can and be there for you so please allow me to do so.



RuthAnn


RuthAnn
aka lilgirllost

We are not bad people trying to become good, we are sick people trying to become well.

Methadone; A Flicker Of Light In The Dark
www.medicalassistedtreatment.org
www.suboxoneassistedtreatment.org
We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
If you cannot afford to call us, send us an email and
we will call you at our expense.
Office: 1-770-334-3655~ Cell: 1-770-527-9119
Email: mrdeanv@aol.com
ALL INFORMATION IS KEPT STRICKLY CONFIDENTIAL
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PostSubject: Thanks RuthAnn,   Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:36 pm

I appreciate your concern. I really don't seem to be coming back from this problem very well. I think it would be easier if I was younger and more resiliant. These days I'm feeling old, tired, and generally beaten down. The stress and anxiety (never mind lack of sleep) has really kicked in my fibromyalgia, and that's just making me more depressed. I'm trying to keep myself occupied with my seed bead weaving, but it's hard to stay focused and motivated. I feel like there's no way this is going to get better, so I'm basically going through each day just like the day before...feeling very pessimistic about my life and future. Thanks again for caring RuthAnn, Kim
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PostSubject: Re: Your Dose and How it was Determined   Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:23 pm

Hello everyone -

I'm not quite sure how to use this website's "european format" yet.......I
was away for a period of time, but tried returning after several months.
No answer to any of my posts, so I'll keep trying until someone can find
it in their time zone.

I am currently at a clinic I found after a year of questing on my
own voilation - this clinic seemed okay until I finally began dosing,
I didn't realize that previously I had been on benzos from my
psychiatrist.
The former clinic I had been attending didn't have no benzos in
its rules so the methadone worked for me.

While at long last finally finding this present clinic in Waukesha, I
discovered one of their hard and fast rules was NO benzos at all.
I had to go off cold turkey from the psychiatrist prescribed anti-D,
lorzepam and klonopin.
Therefore, the methadone that I went up to 100 mg. on did not
seem to be of any help whatsoever.

So I'm still struggling now, dosing daily as am a Phase One, and
hoping that my system will gradually become accustomed to straight
methadone; not meth and benzo blend.

Anyone have any sugestions, please write me back here --

Thank you all!
And be blessed daily in your struggles -- honesty is the
best and only policy.

CJ aka Colette

Moderator Edited:

For Safetly reasons and in accordance with the group rules I have removed portions of your post that contained your personal email addresses.


Last edited by Dee on Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:56 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Original edit done by Moderator; RuthAnn. Approved by: Dee)
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PostSubject: benzos and methadone   Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:29 pm

Hi there, When I started at my methadone clinic almost a year ago I was taking temazepam for sleep which worked great and I did not abuse it. They thought it would be best if I went off of it so I did. I didn't really experience and severe withdrawal from that benzo. A few weeks later I was put bhack on valium (diazepam) by my psych. doctor. Previously before the methadone clinic I had been on benzos for a good amount of time but I really abused them. Knowing my history I signed a contract I would not take benzos while on methadone due to the dangers, I overdosed many times with the methadone benzo combo. I relapsed last in Spetember of 2009 on valium and got in an accident. I had taken a lot of valium. I have been totally clean now since September 09 and really glad to be rid of the benzos, they are bad news for me. I like being able to deal with lifes stresses without taking a pill to mask how I feel. I hope the best for you, I know it is really hard at times, especially if you have taken benzos for a long time. I have respect for what you are going through and will keep you in my thoughts. Keep up the hard work, it will get better.
Seth P.

Moderator Edited:

For Safetly reasons and in accordance with the group rules I have removed portions of your post that contained your personal email address.


Last edited by Dee on Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:57 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Edit done by Moderator; RuthAnn. Approved by; Dee)
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lilgirllost
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PostSubject: Re: Your Dose and How it was Determined   Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:17 am

Hi Colette,
I am sorry to hear about your struggles getting off the benzos. I never did have a problem w/benzos and didn't even like taking them unless I was trying to ease opiate w/drawals symtoms so I can't imagine the struggle with benzos.

I was wondering though, you said you found out from your new clinic the "hard way" that they don't allow benzos at all. I don't know if by "the hard way" if you meant that you "failed" a UA and that's how you found out they weren't allowed or what, but when you transferred clinics, didn't you have to go through a Q & A session where you had to tell them all the medications you take? It seems like they would have said something to you then when you disclosed all of the medications you were taking and told you right then so you didn't have a dirty UA and before having to suddenly be cut them out. Most clinics have that policy because of the dangers of mixing benzos and methadone.

Seems like the clinics would have something to help people addicted to benzos and/or abusing prescribed benzos for a length of time to wean them off before they cut them off. I don't know if benzo addiction works like opiate addiction where you actually suffer w/drawals and/or chemical changes in the brain or if it is more a mental thing, but if it is physical, then it would seem they would have some way to ease people off the medications.

It is a very dangerous mix, benzos and methadone so I totally understand their reasoning behind this. In my opinion, if we were honest with ourselves, most people who abuse opiates that take benzos or any other "mind altering" or "mood stabilizing" meds will eventually abuse the benzos if they haven't already. Again, this is just my opinion so please don't take this the wrong way, but if we are going to truely be free of our drug addiction, I think it is best to stay away from those types of meds all together so that we don't run the risk of transfering the emotional aspect of our addiction from one medication to another.

I also don't know how exactly you meant this but your posts said "I had to go off cold turkey from the psychiatrist prescribed anti-D, lorzepam and klonopin...." I don't know if you meant that klonopin and lorazepam ARE anti depressants or that you had to go cold turkey off your anti depressants AND the lorazipam and klonopin, but I wanted to clarify just so no one is confused.

Lorazipam and Klonipin are not anti depressants. They are anti-anxiety medications which work quite differently from anti depressants. Anti anxiety meds are usually always benzos and they give them to you either alone or in conjuction with an anti depressant.

Another question, if you meant that you had to go off the anti depressants and the anti anxiety meds, what anti depressant were you on? I take wellbutrin which is an anti depressant and have taken Prozac and Zoloft in the past during MMT. Those along with most other antidepressants are not "against the rules" to take in addition to methadone so I was curious which anti depressant you were on and what their reason for taking you off of it were. The benzo's I can understand but anti depressants.......not so much. At least not the Trycyclic Antidepressants and SSRI's (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors).

I wish you luck getting through this ordeal and if you need us, we are always here for you so don't hesitate to let us know. That is what we are here for and that is what the purpose of this forum is for, so we can reach out and lean on each other. We are here if you need us!

RuthAnn


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PostSubject: Benzo detox   Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:30 pm

Hi Colette, Sorry to hear of your benzo troubles. Years ago, the clinics in the Boston/NYC area didn't make a big deal out of benzos, but that seems to have radically changed. I started another clinic several months ago and during the intake process was not just asked about my benzo use, the topic was thoroughly discussed. When I initially spoke with the doctor, I got the distinct feeling that he was having trouble believing that I don't take benzos at all. It does seem to have become a very popular drug for MMT clients. I had a benzo addiction back in the eighties, and it was a hellish detox. I believe it was worse than methadone, though a methadone detox is much longer in duration. It seems that clinics do not want to deal with benzo addiction and will direct a client right into an inpatient facility. Methadone and benzos are a dangerous mix of drugs, so their reasoning is valid. Also it seems that having a doctors prescription for benzos doesn't cut it anymore. Most likely, they'll figure your doctor either doesn't know you take methadone or is a dirty doctor. From what I've seen, they'll want to have a little talk with your doctor, and that could cause some troubles for you too. All in all, it's good that you're getting off of the benzos. Your dose should eventually take care of you, but it will take time. Try to get some good sleep and take your vitamins. Though this may sound dumb, do some walking or other type of exercise. This never hurts and maybe could even stir up some endorphines. I really hope life gets easier for you. Later, keemo7
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PostSubject: Benzos   Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:12 pm

What the policy is at any one clinic can be different, that I have learned. Regardless of the policy I now know from personal expereince that the combination of methadone and benzos can be deadly. I have had more than a few close calls using that combination and I almost paid for it with my life. I am thankful that my clinic wanted me to stay off the benzos not just because of their policy, but because using and abusing benzos was interfering with my recovery and sobriety. If they would have been o.k. with the benzos, I would probably be dead today, I don't think I would have quit on my own, even after an overdose. Why? Because I am an addict. My last use of opiates other than my prescribed methadone has been a little more than 1 year. My last use of any benzos was in September of 2009. I am so grateful for finding and now believing in methadone maintenance. I am also grateful that I no longer have the desire to screw things up with dangerous drugs like benzos. The benzos can be horribly addicting, and what makes it so bad, is that the addiction to them comes on without one really knowing it. They are sneaky drugs. They do work, I believe that. But they work TOO good, and it is so easy to go from taking them as needed to as wanted. Before you know it, you are taking a benzo before doing anything that is at all stressful. Your central nervous system (CNS) get so use to having the benzos in your blod stream, that you start taking them not for organic anxiety/panic, but instead for the simple reason that your CNS can not be without the drug. Without the drug, anything and everything is stressful and you begin to take the drug just to ward off withdrawal, without even knowing it. You will think that you are taking more because you really NEED more, but that NEED is there for one reason, ADDICTION. I am glad to be free of the benzos and hope that people become more aware and educated about the dangers of benzos, especially when combined with opiates, including methadone. Take care everyone. And I hope that this is well received. As for my posts being edited, I now understand the rules and why they are there and I will do my best to ensure that I comply at all times. You have my sincere apology.
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PostSubject: problems with my clinic and dose raise   Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:02 pm

Hello,
Well I am glad i do not have the benzos to deal with because this clinic would not even listen to that I bet. I have been on Methadone for 15 yrs continuiosly. 7 yrs at the clinic I am at now, transferring from another state and 8 yr dosing. I was on 160 mg. then detoxed myself down to 90 and found out I was too sick from that dose and that I had hep c and fibro. It has taken me a year to get back to 130. The doctor had me jump through all kinds of hoops, even took the peak and trough test then he dropped me back 10 down to 120 stating I was overmedicated according to test. THAT TEST IS MOSTLY GOOD FOR SPLIT DOSING REASONS. after 15 yrs of dosing I am not gonna show withdraw in 4 hrs. and it does not account for cravings either. I have not broken any rules and after asking for a raise the first he dropped me a phase and make me come every week, I live 70 miles round trip. I never had any dirty Ua's but I am getting punished for asking for a raise. Every time I put in for a raise it takes weeks to see the doctor and then I have to be there at 5:30 AM when he does not come in till 7:30 AM. He made me drive there 3 times this week. I want to change clinics but at the time do not have the intake fee for the new one and do not want to get blacklisted. The doctor here is a pain, only has he been here a few years but he is not listening to me, an addict. It is so discouraging, but I can not use again , I am 56 yrs old and have hep c. So no they are not letting us raise when some of us need it. What is 10 or 20 mgs raise gonna do to someone on Meth for 15 yrs? Not much.
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PostSubject: Not getting an increase when it is needed   Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:05 pm

After reading the post from brendaelk I really feel he/she is not receiving the level of care that should be expected and given. I started at my current clinic in April of 2009. My starting dose was either 20mg or 30mg, I cannot remember for sure. I reached my current total dose of 160mg at or around 5 to 6 months. I began split dosing at the end of September 2009. I now take 80mg twice a day. I feel so lucky to have a really great doctor at my clinic. They have just recently hired a second doctor whom I believe is coleague (or however you spell it) of the current doctor, so I have high hopes and expectations for him. I feel now that my progression from start to my current dose was completed in a time frame that is very reasonable. Unfortunatley it sounds all too common that clients are encountering many obstacles when asking for an increase. Why is this? Is it because there are too many people trying to get on a high dose for the wrong reason? I just don't get it, but I know that I would have a real hard time dealing with a situation such as I am hearing on this forum. When I reached 120 or 130mg I did a lot of journaling about how I felt thru the day in regards to my dose. I tried to be really clear about everything. If I remember correctly I was only told NO for one increase, but I eventually got the increase after a few sessions with my counselor, my journaling and talking with the nurse. I am greatful to be at a dose that at this point in time seems to be perfect for me, including the split dosing. For quite some time now I have been going to the clinic with my mom, who is a nurse, and getting my take homes using a chain of custody where she takes posession of the methadone and gives them to me when I should take them. I went in today and due to my hard work I now have an entire week of take homes without using the chain of custody form with my mom. I go in once a week, on Friday, and receive a weeks worth. I am so thankful and glad to be making great progress.
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PostSubject: Re: Your Dose and How it was Determined   Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:05 pm

YES halfmarathon6, It was not right the hoops I had to jump through. I had been on 160 several years before I came down too fast to 90 mgs. I was feeling very rough with some withdrawal symptoms, then going to my MD and found I was positive with hep c virus. I had to have had it for at least 15 yrs, I had done nothing since the 15 yrs on the methadone clinic to get the virus. I have a 40 year history off and on with drug use, so no telling how long I have had it. My liver biopsy says F2, so that is good, that it is fibrosis and not cirrosis. I imagine that has somthing to do with my liver and how it metabolizes the meth. The doc did observe me after I dosed last monday and seen I was not over medicated so he did let me have the 10 mg raise, but it has been a year long battle to get back close to what I was at 160, It felt good and right there, otherwise I would have not started coming down. What I hate is that the doc does not listen to me, the addict, he just wants to go on medical reasons and he is not my medical doc, he is an addiction doctor, probably dreaming of having a real job some day! I most definitely needed to go back up. Seems like they can punish us when we ask for raises and the nurses to have to do a little extra work. Well at least the 10 will help and I am very glad to get it after asking for 3 months. How are you doing with your dose? brendaelk
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PostSubject: Doctors   Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:24 pm

Yes I know firsthand how difficult doctors can be sometimes. Every Saturday we have a group meeting at my clinic. Every week someone has to bring up the issue of doctors, but they never want to take any ownership that they could be a part of the problem. What I hear a lot is that this doctor won't give me pain meds or that doctor won't to this or that. For example, a women in our group ended up in the hospital a few weeks ago and she was dishonest and did not tell the doctors or nurses that she was on methadone in fear that she would be treated differently, which I can undertand. Well, the doctors and nurses found out she was on methadone after viewing her medical records. They then asked her what her dose was and again she lied telling them that she was only on what turned out to be half the dose she is really on. So here we have an indivudual that lied not once, but twice to the doctor. After this, the doctor was only willing to prescribe her some vicodin for her pain issues. This women still can't quit complaining about how unfair ALL doctors are and she is the victim. Like I said I can understand feeling this way, I know I have, but the real issue here is that she lied and did not tell them she was on methadone and when they figured that out she lied again about her dose and then she wonders why the doctor was unwilling to give her oxycontin or demerol or whatever she thought she needed. I believe is it my responsibility to be honest about the medications I am on, including methadone, and that given my history as an addict that lied to get nartocics, I can't expect to go into the hospital and place my order for what narcotics I want and when I don't get them play the victim and complain that ALL doctors are out to get me. I know this has nothing to do with the posts by bredaelk, I just wanted to get this out there. I know doctors can be tough and many of them are uneducated about methadone and they shouldn't treat a patient that is on methadone differently, but right now that is the world we live in and one thing I can do to help is to be clean, up front and honest. When I am honest and make the right decisions I have done my part, and in general, I find that the outcome is better than if I would have lied. Take care everyone.
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PostSubject: Re: Your Dose and How it was Determined   Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:56 pm

Здравствуйте друзья!Хочу сразу извиниться за перевод!Я с Украины зовут меня Денис на форуме я не очень давно но читаю его постоянно!У меня есть проблема с дозировкой!А дело в том,что метадон-программа у нас недавно и по этому наши врачи не разбираются в деталях,а за частую вообще мало знают о метадон!По этому я хочу обратиться к вам за помощью может кто из вас знает врача или сам разбирается и сможет мне помочь и отрегулировать мою дозу!Когда началась у нас программа то нам давали препарат Метадол и полтора года я его принимал и мне было нормально доза была 130 мг.А через полтора года начали давать Метадикт .Получалось,что его давали но таблетки по 40 мг. и по этому если не получалось дать правильно дозу тогда добавляли Метадол он по 5 мг. 10 мг. 25 мг. таблетка.Из-за этого мне было очень плохо и я пару недель можно сказать пролежал потом организм стал немного привыкать но всё ровно было не то!Я долго просил,что бы меня вернули обратно на Метадол но это было бесполезно!Но в феврале этого года я уговорил врачей что бы сделали мне возможность получать половину одно и половину другого!Сейчас моя доза 145 мг. было 160 мг. но только одного Метадикта я начал снижать и вот сейчас снизил до 145 мг.Короче говоря мне сейчас дают 65 мг. Метадол и 80 мг. Метадикт.Мне плохо стало после того как мне давали 120 мг. Метадикт и 25 мг. Метадол и мне заменили 40 мг. Метадикта на Метадол и получилось 65 мг. Метадол и 80 мг. Метадикт!Сейчас я не знаю как поступить вернуть назад или увеличить но это я не хочу делать!А спросить не у кого!Вот я надеюсь на вашу помощь!С уважением Денис.







Hello friends, I want to immediately apologize for the translation, I am from the Ukraine my name is Dennis the forum I was not very long but I read it constantly, I have a problem with the dosage! But the fact is that the methadone program we have recently and for this, our doctors not versed in the details, but for parts in general know little about methadone! By this, I want to ask you for help can any of you know a doctor or himself understands and can help me and adjust my dose: When we started the program that gave us medicine Metadol and a half years, I took it and I was normal dose was 130 mg.A and a half years have started to give Metadikt. It turned out that he was given tablets but 40 mg. and therefore if it does not give the correct dose when added Metadol it to 5 mg. 10 mg. 25 mg. tabletka.Iz of this, I felt very bad and I can say a couple of weeks later the body had lain was a bit to get used to but it was not exactly a "long time I asked, what would I have returned back to Metadol but it was useless! But in February this year I am persuaded that the doctors would have done me the opportunity to receive half of one and half to the other! Now my dose of 145 mg. was 160 mg. but only one Metadikta I started to cut and now reduced to 145 mg.Koroche let me now give 65 mg. Metadol and 80 mg. Metadikt.Mne became ill after they gave me 120 mg. Metadikt and 25 mg. Metadol and I replaced the 40 mg. Metadikta on Metadol and a 65 mg. Metadol and 80 mg. Metadikt "Now I do not know what to do bring back or increase it but I do not want to do! And do not ask anyone!" So I hope for your help! Regards Denis.


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